Posts by cha ching

24

The "figurative" heart

by Sour Grapes in

about 25 years ago i gave a talk about how when the bible talks about the heart that it is the literal heart and how the heart and the brain are connected by nerve tissue.

the watchtower even stated that some people who received a heart transplant would take on some of the personality of the donor.then all of a sudden the borg changed and said that when the bible refers to the heart that it is figurative.

then when ever the watchtower referred to the heart it always put the word figurative in front of it.. does anyone know why there was a change in the use of the word heart?

cha ching

My guess? Someone, of the higher ups... or someone's friend or child was going to die...

They needed to change it so that they could "conscientiously" receive much needed medical treatment.

277

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason in

i came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .

these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.

(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.

cha ching

Yay!!!! Babylon the DATE has fallen!

277

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason in

i came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .

these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.

(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.

cha ching

What DO WT publications say? (in very, very tiny print, hoping you don't notice)

In it's infamous Oct & Nov 2011 WT articles page 24 (after explaining on page 23 that business tablets from the Babylonian era "were dated to the day, the month and the year of the reigning king.") column two underneath the 3rd paragraph

"Business tablets exist for all the years traditionally attributed to the Neo-Babylonian kings. When the years that these kings ruled are totalled, and a calculation is made back from the last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 BCE"

Bam!

We don't need to look at cracked stones written 200 years later, ask stupid questions of "what if".... We have documents for alllllll the years during Babylon's reign.

Thank you, WT, you set me free!

7

Of Mozart and the Borg.

by zeb in

i like listening to mozart.. i have noticed the site says it has been visited 181,232,000 plus times.. it has received 51,500 plus comments.. their much bragged about jw.org site has received hm visits?

and comments of course?

comments are denied... says a great deal about the call and power of blessed music..

cha ching

Only 35 before his death, and look at the long list of ever famous, brilliant accomplishments! Two hundred and forty years ago... His music always stays in my head, as my piano instructor had me play these pieces in my training... Ever grateful!

21

What can a therapist really do?

by Thetruthhurts in

hi all, i've not read the forums for awhile as i've been trying to move on with my life but i'm back and posting for the first time feeling like i cant get a grip.

so i'm wondering for those of you that have seen a therapist and say that it truly helps, what can be accomplished?

i'm just really skeptical, but starting to feel desperate.

cha ching

Dear thetruthhurts,

Yes... the 'truth' hurts... I don't know if you still go to meetings, occasionally? or if your wife tries to 'update' you on the great things the Borg is doing, or how Jehovah has seen the problem of 'child sex abuse' and is 'blessing' the congregations/ publishers/ WT with 'new light'?

Being out since 2012, after the 'overlapping generation... 607 is the wrong date thing, it would make me cringe to have to live with hearing the zombie like phrases WT trains people to have in their heads.... Especially if my spouse & kids were still in. Fortunately, for me, my husband, two kids, daughter in law, and my sister left at the same time... we talked, we reasoned...

During these seven years, I have asked many people (all people I meet, actually) "What woke you up?" I also am keenly interested in how families have helped loved ones in their 'awakening'....

Many have expressed that, over time, key phrases, questions, news articles were recalled, and the puzzle just started going together. Nowadays, the majority of newly awoken people I spoke to didn't wake up due to 'doctrinal' issues... but just felt 'something wasn't right'.

They either didn't like the 'dumbed down' messages, videos, meeting parts where the WT was read, the answers given were simply quotes of what was read, and eyebrows raised if it was anything OTHER than exact.... it gave them the feeling of 'what's going on?'

Also, watching Australian Royal Commission got so many people jumbled up and awoken... listening to a GB member Geoffrey Jackson say in WT style that, basically 'it would be presumptuous of us to say that we have the only true religion.' I actually don't know how he invented those answers so quickly. An extremely skilled con-artist.

WARNING: Do not try to dump all of this info on your spouse at one time. I hear that 'talking to yourself'... "Hmmm, did he really go to Australia and testify?" or "I've never seen a GB in a court room" or "Oh my god, they didn't report it? there were 1,000 pedophiles noted so far?" maybe news articles about other relilgions doing wrong, and asking 'how can they do that?' or things like that.... very casually, and not to pressure them.

Maybe watching an episode of Leah Remini/ Scientology, I think it was season 2 episode 2 or 3 where they interviewed reporters, investigators, professors, lawyers and they spoke of their experiences. It eerily mirrors JWs. (more extreme)
Even the experiences of sexual abuse.... same as JWs...

Then, there is the 'spend more fun time' with your spouse. Brainwashing depends on people being constantly bombarded with information, over and over... Hence the joke, "Jehovah's people are brainwashed, that's why we have the cleanest brains of anyone on earth, hahahaha"...., Remember that?

Well, if you plan vacations, events, hobbies that take them away from meetings, service, etc (not all at once, you have to build a desire, everyone WANTS to have fun, but are made to feel 'guilty' about it, right?) That hamster wheel of activity is there for a purpose,,.. to keep your brain engaged, WT needs that, desperately.

How old are your kids? All kids love to have fun, let them, help them. Inch by inch (just like WT did to us) get their brainwaves on another track. (Each parent has the 'right' -as WT likes to point out- to spend time with their kids in the way they want... )

I also feel that talking to friends, other ex-jw's has it's advantages. A therapist is good for seeing the big pic, dealing with frustrations, and if you can't sleep? drugs to help.

When you first leave, it is quite a mix.... So sorry that you still have your family in. keep writing, keep living, singing, dancing, exercising, traveling,hobbying.

I hope this helps,

cha ching

10

False oath in Russia

by neat blue dog in

i'll be the first to say that the russian government is pretty terrible and overreaching in its', power but that's not what this is about.

in a recent hearing, a witness for the jws said this under oath:.

one thing makes jehovah’s witnesses unique: they do not rely on strict rules or the authority of any particular leader, instead, they try to help adherents develop a bible-trained conscience so that each individual can personally and voluntarily make decisions guided by the bible.. i'm sorry but that is just not true.

cha ching

JeffT...
The trouble is the average JW probably actually believes that bullshit

Very true, in one way, and not in another... That is the brilliance of WT.

I agree that their brains are trained to think that they "have no rules"... they aren't 'rules', they 'have a Bible trained conscience'... (trained by the rules in the WT)

Yet, in a flick of a switch, when I went to see my non JW dad, one of the first things out of my mother's mouth was:

"I can't talk to you. You know the rules"

Enter "cognitive dissonance.".... Two realities at the same time. ;-)

45

I was surprised today by what I saw a JW driving

by days of future passed in

i was out thrift shopping where my sister lives.

before i went in to the store, i went to donut shop a few doors down.

as i walked up, there by the window was a family and others eating donuts.

cha ching

The interesting thing to me is that there is a video (by WT) about a husband and wife selling their home, moving to an apartment, using their $$ / accomplishments to "further the kingdom".

It is surprising, with all that WT tries to train people to do & think, (Caleb/ Sophia & ice cream $, by god, haha) that it is not working on some.

I dont think there's anything wrong buying things you work hard for, or enjoying it, or even being proud of your accomplishments. No one will argue that.

I think that the point was: surprise... especially for those of us raised in the 60's, to see the change (which is good! Party on!) from the viewpoint "are you really being spiritual buying THAT kind of car?"

Heck, my husband sold his beloved 70 something two door California Mustang to buy a 4 door Datsun (whose vinyl seats cracked in the freezing temps of Maine) to pioneer where the "need was greater"...

And 10 years ago, we have an elder and his fam come rolling into the Kingdom Hall parking lot in this Gigantic Hummer! Getting 1 mile to the gallon, haha!

That's the difference. 😉

19

Personal story of bethel, sexual abuse and child baptism

by GetMeOutofHere in

born into a strong jw family in the early 80s.

my father died when i was 4 and that left a huge emotional scar on my tender mind.

with my mother, i went to live with family members and was sexually abused between 4 and 10. he was an ms but when elders later found out, all that happened was he got his privileges removed.

cha ching

PS, GetMeOutofHere...

Another way to help your wife 'get out' is to simply do more and more fun things together.

In WTville, 'life' and fun is put on hold.... for future days. Family life, relationships are not really developed the way they could be. It usually centers around *studying for some meeting *going to the meeting *going out in service *going to the conventions *preparing talks *studying the Watchtower *answering at the Watchtower *taking the speaker out to lunch.

WT counts on this "hamster wheel" of activity to keep you indoctrinated... if you are not at the meetings for a while, your brain is able to start thinking.

So, one of the things you can do just let her brain start thinking and enjoying life. Take her dancing, take her to the movies, take her on trips on the weekend so you don't go out in service, take her 2 an art class together, go to the beach, go to museums, she will enjoy the time with you, love being with you and will not miss going to the meetings as much.

Her brain will start working and slowly, with questions , one question at a time actually, she can start to wake up.

Some have tried un-witnessing to their family with questions as if they heard it out in service, "one guy asked me if I heard about the Australian Royal Commission." I said no, so I looked it up... do you think that we have the only true religion in the world? (Wait for answer) I cant believe what Geoffrey Jackson replied to this...

Not exact words, but the point is to give a tiny bit of info, make her curious... see how she reacts... if not positive, try another approach...

Number one, give her fun!

45

I was surprised today by what I saw a JW driving

by days of future passed in

i was out thrift shopping where my sister lives.

before i went in to the store, i went to donut shop a few doors down.

as i walked up, there by the window was a family and others eating donuts.

cha ching

I get why you were surprised... I grew up in the 60's / 70's.... and on when having anything but a 4 door car that was modest was frowned upon....

Are you being materialistic?

Are you being flashy, immodest?

Can't your funds be given to WT to help build K Halls?

That is what was drilled into us, and people frown on those that were acting "worldly" by buying such cars. They weren't 'spiritual' or 'putting the Kingdom first."

Except...... If you were VERY rich, VERY 'up on the favored list' ... somehow it was 'ok' for you to flash your $$

19

Personal story of bethel, sexual abuse and child baptism

by GetMeOutofHere in

born into a strong jw family in the early 80s.

my father died when i was 4 and that left a huge emotional scar on my tender mind.

with my mother, i went to live with family members and was sexually abused between 4 and 10. he was an ms but when elders later found out, all that happened was he got his privileges removed.

cha ching

Welcome, and hugs GMOOH. It is a cold, hard, cruel fact to come across that despite all the personal "relationships" (built on your loyalty to WT) that this organization... WT, is a machine.

You have been promised many things, resurrection of a dear loved one, eternal youth, happiness.... all on the contingency that you 'keep your mouth shut' and just wait.... and wait..... and wait... for the ever changing policies, doctrines, promises.

The first time I went on this "apostate site" I was anxious that someone would 'discover me', and know who I was.... but that is unlikely, it is a fear that WT puts in you. "Where will you go?" I just said "anywhere but here, and I don't have to know."

I, however, left with my husband and two children and sister. You have a wife and a mom left.... Have you ever reported the abuse to the police? The person who abused you is most likely abusing others. Does your wife know about the abuse? Sometimes, when these things come to light, and people see how the "WT" deals with abuse victims (despite all their nice little WT articles about it lately) people start to see the beast for what it is.

My husband was an elder, had to make a choice of giving a deposition against the WT and being DF'd or 'playing the game'. He told the truth and he and my sons got DF'd to keep it all quiet.

Take one day at a time. It is all your choice, your circumstances. Don't do anything hastily, you have time. When we first left, it seems like I had to explain it all to everyone, everywhere.... Nope, you don't need to. Relax. Post here, read here and other sites. Many, many, many have gone thru and are going thru the same thing.

Hugs, cha ching